The quality vs. quantity arguement

  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:6191c69e0c1a3ba236b56b8d89be1954', '<p><a href=\"http://www.rpgoutfitter.com/wow-gm/char.cfm?char=Neubauten@US-Kargath\" class=\"bb-url\"><img src=\"http://imgx.rpgoutfitter.com/sig/US/Kargath/Neubauten.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"bb-image\" /></a><br />\n</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('menu:0:en', 'a:4:{s:10:\"path index\";a:271:{s:13:\"admin/filters\";s:1:\"7\";s:18:\"admin/filters/list\";i:-2;s:17:\"admin/filters/add\";i:-3;s:20:\"admin/filters/delete\";i:-4;s:11:\"filter/tips\";s:1:\"3\";s:10:\"admin/node\";s:1:\"8\";s:19:\"admin/node/overview\";i:-7;s:17:\"admin/node/search\";i:-8;s:19:\"admin/settings/node\";s:2:\"21\";s:28:\"admin/settings/content-types\";s:2:\"22\";s:4:\"node\";s:1:\"4\";s:8:\"node/add\";s:1:\"9\";s:7:\"rss.xml\";i:-13;s:12:\"system/files\";i:-14;s:5:\"admin\";s:1:\"5\";s:12:\"admin/themes\";s:2:\"10\";s:19:\"admin/themes/select\" in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:7b241214fcd87aa5be054a5e8ac215dd', '<p>So there has been a lot of discussion recently both here and in-game about recruitment. I would like to raise a couple of points for consideration as we attempt to increase our ranks.</p>\n\n<p>First, it is my deep-seated opinion that quality trumps quantity. I keep being reminded of this as we pick up players to fill in for our late night runs. If we get one quality player (not necessarily geared, but skillful) our runs are smooth and fast. If we get a monkey (even a geared one) we die, die, die. I don\'t mind helping someone to learn the ropes, but sometimes it\'s impossible.</p>\n\n<p>We grouped with a rogue recently who couldn\'t find his ass with both hands. This guy kept getting us killed by wandering (sometimes backward) into groups in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:50f6ec2120c4c052d84b751eb71446e5', '<p>Here are the guild stats for November. </p>\n\n<p><a href=\"http://imageshack.us\" class=\"bb-url\"><img src=\"http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/7430/novstatsmp2.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"bb-image\" /></a></p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:378999b0fdc291f51649773bcb38bbae', '<p><a href=\"http://www.rpgoutfitter.com/wow-gm/char.cfm?char=Greysea@US-Kargath\" class=\"bb-url\"><img src=\"http://imgx.rpgoutfitter.com/sig/US/Kargath/Greysea.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"bb-image\" /></a></p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:9f44d038340a338064da1f5b2bd9463e', '<p>All wipes are caused by paladins, whether present or not.</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:d47216645a7e0068444a117eae6a23ac', '<p>We are building a guild here. Instead of looking for a guild to raid in or that someone else created, we decided to create our own. It takes alot of work to do it right, but it will be worth it in the end. I would much rather tackle end game content and master the strategy and instances myself than be ran through as a tag along. </p>\n\n<p>As to quality, not all players really know how to play their class, although they should. If you are a rogue and show up to an instance without poisons, or a warrior showing up to tank without a shield, then you do not know wtf you are doing. Everyone has a certain learning curve and it takes time to master your class, but it can be done. We need to find players who want the challenge of figuring it out for themselves and taking t in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:ff521edac1bd8cab6e0d0007e8e26f0f', '<p>Mormont- lvl 60 Rogue<br />\nArath- lvl 60 Hunter</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:b2768bb6d8ef187b8fe27ac0602a8554', '<p>I say give \'em a chance. You never know if the person you grouped with is new to the instance, having a rough night, or playing an alt that they don\'t know very well yet. Obviously, if you group with a person that is a tool, don\'t invite them. But for the most part, I say get them into the guild, and kick them the hell out if they perpetually suck. Some players actually hit 60 without ever being in a decent guild with the same players and with an opportuinty to learn how to play and to understand basic tactics. Give them a chance, boot them if they suck. That\'s my two cents.</p>\n\n<p>3 out of 5 wipes are my fault and y\'all still play with me.</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:d872e4127d978ddc1daf3cb94051e49b', '<p>the other 2 are caused by Kith... and we still bring him along *turns to Neub* why is that again N?</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:053e8497a09432e2d3f2edd23e0610e7', '<p>Does this tabard make my ass look fat?<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.rpgoutfitter.com/wow-gm/char.cfm?char=Pallasathena@US-Kargath\" class=\"bb-url\"><img src=\"http://imgx.rpgoutfitter.com/sig/US/Kargath/Pallasathena.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"bb-image\" /></a></p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:078731e38b0f09cd5f2d984b602e1572', '<p>I\'m not suggesting that we make a decision on a player\'s quailty from a single run. I\'m saying that quality can be fostered as long as there is an attitude to back it. You can see the kind of players that are going to fit in. They are the people that are active in guild chat, they are the people that take the time to get Vent set up, they are the kind that <span style=\"font-style:italic\">post in the forums</span>. Guildies recognize their name because they have a presence. Even if they aren\'t the greatest players at first, their good attitude makes it possible to deliver constructive criticism without creating animosity.</p>\n\n<p>So yes, Shiek, I agree. Give them a chance. Heck, give them several. We\'re looking in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:6191c69e0c1a3ba236b56b8d89be1954', '<p><a href=\"http://www.rpgoutfitter.com/wow-gm/char.cfm?char=Neubauten@US-Kargath\" class=\"bb-url\"><img src=\"http://imgx.rpgoutfitter.com/sig/US/Kargath/Neubauten.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"bb-image\" /></a><br />\n</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:ae070d82625295bad8ff1a25e03e138e', '<p>its good that we are seen for more than our ability to play because trust me, if that were the only dimension, i would have been ousted looooong ago.</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:053e8497a09432e2d3f2edd23e0610e7', '<p>Does this tabard make my ass look fat?<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.rpgoutfitter.com/wow-gm/char.cfm?char=Pallasathena@US-Kargath\" class=\"bb-url\"><img src=\"http://imgx.rpgoutfitter.com/sig/US/Kargath/Pallasathena.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"bb-image\" /></a></p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:5dc1c7b331451c8122ddd1a8ebc90d85', '<p>I agree, cause I don\'t see myself as that great of a rogue, and I\'m so busy in my RL that in that past month I\'ve rarely gotten any chances to play - mind you the one weekend I could have I went out for a once in a lifetime wii launch event, but I still haven\'t been kicked out. </p>\n\n<p>And I hope that is because of what I bring to the guild when given the chance. </p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:25916726c85d43eb92ae34f5592fbe29', '<p>Very good Neub next week, I want a 1000 word essay on why Baron and DMG drop pieces for classes that are not in our group. </p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:053e8497a09432e2d3f2edd23e0610e7', '<p>Does this tabard make my ass look fat?<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.rpgoutfitter.com/wow-gm/char.cfm?char=Pallasathena@US-Kargath\" class=\"bb-url\"><img src=\"http://imgx.rpgoutfitter.com/sig/US/Kargath/Pallasathena.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"bb-image\" /></a></p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:c2ad4ca97fae57aa0468d5ea4ad8a73f', '<p>What I was pointing out is that there is a learning phase for anyone in this game when they start running higher level raids, etc. Some never seem to catch on to some of the more basic concepts of their class. I myself had to go through the learning process, and I still am learning. The trick is to not only be cool to run with, but also to at least try and make an effort to improve if it is needed. None of us are perfect, myself included. But if a warrior shows up to tank without a shield, they really need to read up on their class and make some changes.</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:ff521edac1bd8cab6e0d0007e8e26f0f', '<p>Mormont- lvl 60 Rogue<br />\nArath- lvl 60 Hunter</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:54c37bce67981c0479354c85e133c918', '<p>the thing also is, we want a certain class to do a certain thing. for example a druid must heal... if he does not know how, then he needs to go learn? and i know this is a tangent to your point Mo, but here\'s the thing. I do not want to be a holydin for example. Yes i can heal and will heal when needed but i am prot spec\'d. or how about Darras who is ret spec\'d. yeah we may know what we\'re doing but we\'d like the chance to play other roles. </p>\n\n<p>same with the warrior. what if its a DPS warrior? yes it wears plate, and yes he may be able to tank, but there\'s no shield involved.</p>\n\n<p>i do get what you are saying though about the fundamentals of the class, but i think if one can demonstrate that they understand it we in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:053e8497a09432e2d3f2edd23e0610e7', '<p>Does this tabard make my ass look fat?<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.rpgoutfitter.com/wow-gm/char.cfm?char=Pallasathena@US-Kargath\" class=\"bb-url\"><img src=\"http://imgx.rpgoutfitter.com/sig/US/Kargath/Pallasathena.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"bb-image\" /></a></p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:581901133f6ce0442d466ebc8f6d2e73', '<p>I\'ll way in \'cause I can. I\'ve got no idea how this whole recruitment business works, because the chance that anyone immediately useful for high-level instances isn\'t going to be guilded already is practically nil. Which, as far as I can figure it, leaves 2 choices: headhunting and investing in lowbies.</p>\n\n<p>I\'ve got no reservations about doing either. If we could just headhunt prime 60s and start running MC and Naxx tomorrow that\'d be great, but it\'s the damndest thing - in my limited experience, folks like that always seem to be in raid guilds already, and don\'t seem stoked to join a guild who thinks managing to cobble together a 10-man UBRS raid once a month is pretty hot shit. I certainly don\'t mean that as in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:188fdf8ab04c8ed3a9083622b8ed715c', '<p>to add to your point Haesuer, i think we have kind of invested in the second wave of 60\'s. i got an alt, and with the great help of the guilds already active 60\'s we\'ve gotten very close to getting our next wave. we still have Neub, Mormont, Nev, Pam, Pallas, Haeuser, etc... now we get to add, Damien, Balt, Dreplen, Kathrynn, corai, etc...</p>\n\n<p>i dont think we should spread ourselves too thin tho, gather some 30\'s like you siad and focus on them till they hit mid 50ish and start over. that way we can devote time to them rather than having a bunch of random level toons yelling at us that the highbies are not helping out the lowbies.</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:053e8497a09432e2d3f2edd23e0610e7', '<p>Does this tabard make my ass look fat?<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.rpgoutfitter.com/wow-gm/char.cfm?char=Pallasathena@US-Kargath\" class=\"bb-url\"><img src=\"http://imgx.rpgoutfitter.com/sig/US/Kargath/Pallasathena.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"bb-image\" /></a></p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:ccd2463594b2e00b93599cf8c996a65d', '<p>Your point is well-taken, Weyer. However, I want to point out that we have run successful all-guild UBRS runs three out of the past four weekends, and we took a stab at ZG last Saturday after the Vent call with 13 guildies and 7 PUGers, and killed three bosses. You would be amazed how many 60s who end up in PUGs are willing to entertain the idea of joining our guild. Some of them don\'t want to raid twice a week, some have never found a guild they like, and some simply come along for a four-Ronin Scholo run and have a good time shooting the shit on Vent. I\'ve done it sevearl times, and if IS can recruit 60s, anyone can recruit 60s.</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
  • user warning: Access denied for user: 'dbo180634567@%' to database 'db180634567' query: INSERT INTO cache (cid, data, created, expire, headers) VALUES ('filter:4:f25e964800598432916c2b51ac29a66e', '<p>Moflibbity - Watch out, he\'s <span style=\"font-style:italic\">crazy</span><br />\n</p><br class=\"clear\" />', 1328677224, 1328763624, '') in /homepages/39/d119264748/htdocs/ronin/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 120.
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The quality vs. quantity arguement

Neubauten's picture

So there has been a lot of discussion recently both here and in-game about recruitment. I would like to raise a couple of points for consideration as we attempt to increase our ranks.

First, it is my deep-seated opinion that quality trumps quantity. I keep being reminded of this as we pick up players to fill in for our late night runs. If we get one quality player (not necessarily geared, but skillful) our runs are smooth and fast. If we get a monkey (even a geared one) we die, die, die. I don't mind helping someone to learn the ropes, but sometimes it's impossible.

We grouped with a rogue recently who couldn't find his ass with both hands. This guy kept getting us killed by wandering (sometimes backward) into groups of mobs, chasing runners instead of shooting them, and "scouting" while the rest of the group was recovering. Two players like that in a group doesn't make you twice as effective, just 2 times more likely to wipe. If we fill our guild with players like that, we will ultimately gain a reputation for failure. I, for one, don't want "Ronin" to mean "worthless" to other players.

Second, quality players are trained to become so. If you look at the way that we run instances these days vs. back 6-8 months ago, it's night and day. I was doing an instance the other night and Mormont was talking us through the strategy for an encounter on Vent. The thing was, MORMONT WASN'T IN THE INSTANCE. He got a list of what character types we had in the group and adapted a strategy without even seeing what we were looking at. That's training and experience. We can build that into a new guildie (usually). It just takes time and patience, which brings me to my next point...

Third, attitude is everything. Every member of our guild shares (to a greater or lesser degree) a sense of humor and a feeling of comaraderie. People know each other's names and, because of Vent, voices for the most part. We rib each other a little and respect each other a lot. Compliments are common. Blame not so much (except that I have heard almost EVERYONE apologize to the group if they think they've caused a wipe). People like that are a pleasure to group with because they're a pleasure to associate with in any capacity. We can train tactics, but we can't train "coolness".

So I guess what I'm trying to say is let's be a little selective with our recruitment. We have a few new members (Dreplen and Devileyes come to mind) who are quality players. If we can keep recruiting players like that, even slowly, we'll soon have a world-class guild.

And I won't have to group with that worthless clown-show rogue ever again.
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» tags:

Greysea's picture

Adds/Removes for Nov

Here are the guild stats for November.


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Kithedance's picture

Correction

All wipes are caused by paladins, whether present or not.


Mormont's picture

I agree with the quality argument...

We are building a guild here. Instead of looking for a guild to raid in or that someone else created, we decided to create our own. It takes alot of work to do it right, but it will be worth it in the end. I would much rather tackle end game content and master the strategy and instances myself than be ran through as a tag along.

As to quality, not all players really know how to play their class, although they should. If you are a rogue and show up to an instance without poisons, or a warrior showing up to tank without a shield, then you do not know wtf you are doing. Everyone has a certain learning curve and it takes time to master your class, but it can be done. We need to find players who want the challenge of figuring it out for themselves and taking this game to the next level. Let's get a vent call going and discuss ideas.


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Mormont- lvl 60 Rogue
Arath- lvl 60 Hunter


Ironshiek's picture

Disagree.

I say give 'em a chance. You never know if the person you grouped with is new to the instance, having a rough night, or playing an alt that they don't know very well yet. Obviously, if you group with a person that is a tool, don't invite them. But for the most part, I say get them into the guild, and kick them the hell out if they perpetually suck. Some players actually hit 60 without ever being in a decent guild with the same players and with an opportuinty to learn how to play and to understand basic tactics. Give them a chance, boot them if they suck. That's my two cents.

3 out of 5 wipes are my fault and y'all still play with me.


PallasAthena's picture

the other 2 are caused by

the other 2 are caused by Kith... and we still bring him along *turns to Neub* why is that again N?


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Does this tabard make my ass look fat?


Neubauten's picture

See points 2 and 3

I'm not suggesting that we make a decision on a player's quailty from a single run. I'm saying that quality can be fostered as long as there is an attitude to back it. You can see the kind of players that are going to fit in. They are the people that are active in guild chat, they are the people that take the time to get Vent set up, they are the kind that post in the forums. Guildies recognize their name because they have a presence. Even if they aren't the greatest players at first, their good attitude makes it possible to deliver constructive criticism without creating animosity.

So yes, Shiek, I agree. Give them a chance. Heck, give them several. We're looking for quality of character, IMO. That can be tough to determine with a single run.


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PallasAthena's picture

its good that we are seen

its good that we are seen for more than our ability to play because trust me, if that were the only dimension, i would have been ousted looooong ago.


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Does this tabard make my ass look fat?


kathrynn's picture

I agree, cause I don't see

I agree, cause I don't see myself as that great of a rogue, and I'm so busy in my RL that in that past month I've rarely gotten any chances to play - mind you the one weekend I could have I went out for a once in a lifetime wii launch event, but I still haven't been kicked out.

And I hope that is because of what I bring to the guild when given the chance.


PallasAthena's picture

Very good Neub next week, I

Very good Neub next week, I want a 1000 word essay on why Baron and DMG drop pieces for classes that are not in our group.


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Does this tabard make my ass look fat?


Mormont's picture

Yes...Give everyone a chance....

What I was pointing out is that there is a learning phase for anyone in this game when they start running higher level raids, etc. Some never seem to catch on to some of the more basic concepts of their class. I myself had to go through the learning process, and I still am learning. The trick is to not only be cool to run with, but also to at least try and make an effort to improve if it is needed. None of us are perfect, myself included. But if a warrior shows up to tank without a shield, they really need to read up on their class and make some changes.


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Mormont- lvl 60 Rogue
Arath- lvl 60 Hunter


PallasAthena's picture

the thing also is, we want a

the thing also is, we want a certain class to do a certain thing. for example a druid must heal... if he does not know how, then he needs to go learn? and i know this is a tangent to your point Mo, but here's the thing. I do not want to be a holydin for example. Yes i can heal and will heal when needed but i am prot spec'd. or how about Darras who is ret spec'd. yeah we may know what we're doing but we'd like the chance to play other roles.

same with the warrior. what if its a DPS warrior? yes it wears plate, and yes he may be able to tank, but there's no shield involved.

i do get what you are saying though about the fundamentals of the class, but i think if one can demonstrate that they understand it we should allow them to be diverse, or else everything becomes cookie cutter.


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weyerhaeuser's picture

2 cents

I'll way in 'cause I can. I've got no idea how this whole recruitment business works, because the chance that anyone immediately useful for high-level instances isn't going to be guilded already is practically nil. Which, as far as I can figure it, leaves 2 choices: headhunting and investing in lowbies.

I've got no reservations about doing either. If we could just headhunt prime 60s and start running MC and Naxx tomorrow that'd be great, but it's the damndest thing - in my limited experience, folks like that always seem to be in raid guilds already, and don't seem stoked to join a guild who thinks managing to cobble together a 10-man UBRS raid once a month is pretty hot shit. I certainly don't mean that as a criticism of us...I personally think cobbling together a 10 man UBRS raid once a month on our roster is quite the organizational coup. But just to lay it out there, it takes numbers to headhunt. So let's talk about lowbie investment.

It seems to me like we're going to have to suck it up and start hunting 30s. I agree that we need people who A) aren't idiots and B) are old enough to marry in Alaska. After that, it's up to all y'all old hands to teach them the game, and maybe sportsmanship and citizenship on the side.

I say just make vent the prereq. It's harder to be a dick on a conference call than on a keyboard. It's also easier to tell them when they're botching the job without it sounding all nasty, the way it sometimes does on the screen. And if you're really serious about it, suck it up and grind an alt up to thirty, and start the recruiting/training process from Stockades on. Heck, I've got 2 I can contribute.

But right now we're maxed out running a 10 man raids, and I get the sense you've all got higher asperations. I don't think we're going to have much luck picking off the disgruntled ranks of hardcore raiders until we've already got enough to hit MC from time to time.

My 2 cents.


PallasAthena's picture

to add to your point

to add to your point Haesuer, i think we have kind of invested in the second wave of 60's. i got an alt, and with the great help of the guilds already active 60's we've gotten very close to getting our next wave. we still have Neub, Mormont, Nev, Pam, Pallas, Haeuser, etc... now we get to add, Damien, Balt, Dreplen, Kathrynn, corai, etc...

i dont think we should spread ourselves too thin tho, gather some 30's like you siad and focus on them till they hit mid 50ish and start over. that way we can devote time to them rather than having a bunch of random level toons yelling at us that the highbies are not helping out the lowbies.


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Ironshiek's picture

Don't Underestimate Us

Your point is well-taken, Weyer. However, I want to point out that we have run successful all-guild UBRS runs three out of the past four weekends, and we took a stab at ZG last Saturday after the Vent call with 13 guildies and 7 PUGers, and killed three bosses. You would be amazed how many 60s who end up in PUGs are willing to entertain the idea of joining our guild. Some of them don't want to raid twice a week, some have never found a guild they like, and some simply come along for a four-Ronin Scholo run and have a good time shooting the shit on Vent. I've done it sevearl times, and if IS can recruit 60s, anyone can recruit 60s.



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